Kristina Campbell ON The Science of the Microbiome & How Gut Health Impacts Your Brain & Body

Krati: [00:00:00] I want to assume that the people listening know nothing about the human microbiome. So, cause it’s not exactly the, an ordinary term that we use in our daily life. So let’s start there. Let’s start with what is the human microbiome?

Kristina: Yes, great place to start. So the human microbiome is this community of microorganisms. So it’s bacteria, fungi, viruses, all in this big soup that live in different parts of your body. And then the body environment is part of the microbiome. So, if you think of an Arctic bi biome, or, you know, a grassland biome on Earth, it’s sort of like that, but on a miniature scale.

So, you have these microbiomes all over your body. The most famous one, I think, would be the one in the gut. So the digestive tract, because it’s the most populous and there has been a lot of research on it and how it’s linked to health, but you also have [00:01:00] microbiomes on your eye, on different parts of your skin, you know, in the reproductive tract.

So there are all these worlds. Um, Functioning unto themselves and uh, doing these things for your body. So that’s essentially it. I’ve heard people call it a living layer, for example, on your skin, which is true because it’s all of these amazing living creatures that live together in an ecosystem on a certain part of your body.

Krati: And

in your research, what have you discovered about how it impacts

the human health?

Kristina: So I’m a science Writer and And I’ve spent the past about 12 years interviewing a lot of scientists and

visiting a lot of places, going to conferences and digging into what it really is to know about this microbiome and what it does for the human body. And I would say in the past 10 years, certainly there’s been a real [00:02:00] paradigm shift in what we think about our bodies because of what we know about the microbiome.

So let me give you some examples of what it does and what the science is saying. So diet is a big one. So first of all, when you eat something, and again, this is talking about your gut microbiome. When you eat something, it does go through your digestive tract and gets digested by your body. But microbes all along the digestive tract also have a role to play in how it’s digested and how it turns into kind of a health benefit for you.

One of the biggest examples in the gut is certain fibers, they go all the way through your digestive tract. Your human body actually cannot digest them. And then finally they get to the colon, so the large intestine, and then they get fermented by the microbes, so broken down finally, not by the human body, but by the [00:03:00] microbes there, and release these metabolites, molecules that are really beneficial and they travel all around your body to help your health.

So that’s one way basically the gut microbiome transforms your diet and allows you to use more of it for your health. The gut microbes also make certain vitamins that you either couldn’t make on your own or that you couldn’t make enough of on your own. So that’s vitamin K, vitamin B12 are the main ones uh, microbiome in the gut also transforms any medicines you might take.

So there is a very active area in pharmaceutical science right now, figuring out the contribution of the gut microbes to how medicines work, because sometimes, you know, a medicine can work different ways for different people, and they’re trying to get to the bottom of it. And saying, maybe if person A has [00:04:00] this kind of microbiome, the medicine will work well.

If person B has another kind of microbiome, the medicine won’t work as well. So it transforms your medicines. There’s also a growing area of research in how the gut microbes influence gut brain communication. And essentially support your mental health. And, you know, any influence any diseases or conditions that you may get later in life.

So that’s, again, a very exciting and active area of research. How your gut microbes work hard every single day to keep your brain healthy. And then when something goes wrong, you know what they are doing at that time. So those are some of the main things. And as you can see, those are some very important things.

for body functioning. So I think we’re realizing that like we’re not just A bunch of human cells functioning together, where this symbiosis, this cloud of microbes [00:05:00] and human cells working together, and it’s quite amazing how this all works.

Krati: Okay, now I have so many questions, but first um, let’s first establish um, how important gut health really is because we understand how microbiome is impacting the gut health. But before that, I would love to know more about how important the gut health is and the, the gut brain connection. Right.

Kristina: I love that you’ve made that distinction between gut health and the gut microbiome. So, one of the Books that I’ve written. So I’ve now written four books that are published, one that’s underway. The last one that was published was gut health for dummies. Um, So a big dummies brand, a guide to gut health and yes, and there’s absolutely a lot to gut health.

It’s not just the gut microbes, but it’s this whole suite of um, you know, [00:06:00] chemistry and a lot of uh, physiology going on in the gut. Um, Things like transit time, how fast your muscles move the food and drink through your intestines. And so there are many, many facets to gut health. But overall, yeah, what, you know, how important is gut health to overall health?

So the gut microbiome is part of it, but not all of it. I think, In fact, not a lot is known about how gut health, exactly the mechanisms of how gut health impacts overall health and the links to chronic disease. But, for example, there have been some recent studies showing um, Depending on your bowel habits, that is correlated later on with certain diseases that you may get.

One that’s been known about for a long time is Parkinson’s disease. So maybe up to 20 years before someone gets Parkinson’s disease, they will have unexplained constipation. [00:07:00] And that’s one example where it’s known in the medical community. That gut health can be almost a crystal ball, a predictor of your later health.

So that one’s really clear that, and of course not everyone who has constipation will get Parkinson’s. But if you look back, people who get Parkinson’s almost always have this symptom way in the past. So I think more correlation studies are being done saying, well, let’s look at patterns of gut health, correlate them to health later in life, and maybe chronic diseases and see what comes up.

So that’s a really active area, but then, yeah, like I say, the mechanisms are a bit less known and people are looking into it but, yeah, that’s, that’s a really hot area of science, I would say. And then the gut brain connection, how important is that to your health? I think also very important my book that’s coming out [00:08:00] now in the next year is on irritable bowel syndrome.

And I think that is a case in point of a, a condition where the connection between the gut and the brain is paramount and it goes wrong. And again, the mechanisms aren’t really known. There’s many possible, you know, physiological things that could be going on in the gut. But nevertheless, this, this two way communication goes wrong.

And then you have a lot of brain symptoms such as anxiety, around the bowel movements and even just generally having anxiety, depression, as well as your gut symptoms and unpredictable, you know, either diarrhea or constipation, a lot of abdominal pain, other symptoms such as bloating and distention. And it’s all because this two way highway going between the gut and the brain breaks down.

Again, some of it could have to do with the gut microbes. Others have to do [00:09:00] with things like the immune system or various other mechanisms. So, yeah, those are some, some illustrations of how those functions in the gut are super important to health.

Krati: I just want a little bit more clarity on this. You said two way communication. I, like the, the players here are the, is your gut. There’s your gut, right? And then there’s your, you, you mentioned immune system, which we often refer to as the second brain of our body. Then there is the brain itself. How is the communication happening?

Cause you just said like a huge thing there that your gut health is can actually lead to, like, if uh, your digestion is not proper, it can lead to constipation can lead to Parkinson’s is such a huge thing. And I’m guessing not a lot of people would know that.

And then also that it could, it can lead to anxiety and depression. That is a huge thing and not. Easy for anyone to understand because I think we often would associate, we [00:10:00] do associate anxiety and other such mental health issues with the stressors in our life, outside stressors, not physiological stressors, to our environment.

So can you just help me understand how this communication happens? Does it start with the brain, impacts the gut, or does it start in the gut, impacts the brain, and where does the immune system come into? Just a little bit more clarity on that.

Kristina: Absolutely. Great questions. I think um, I mean, it’s very complex. So, it’s both top down, meaning from the brain to the gut, the influence, and from the gut to the brain. So yeah, I’ll explain a bit about each one. So as far as from the gut to the brain, it’s really interesting because the, the gut has its own nervous system called the enteric nervous system.

Signals are constantly going up to the brain. The brain is like a micromanager needs to keep tabs on everything going on down there, right? And so like about 90 [00:11:00] percent of the signals, for example, that go through the vagus nerve, which is one of the nerves going upward to the brain those are going upward and they’re telling the brain what’s going on in the gut and the brain reacts in different ways to that.

Then in the opposite direction, the brain is giving signals to the gut and it could be, you know, some of it results in behavior. Some of it is conscious. Like, oh, there’s an egg, I don’t like to eat eggs, you know, I’m not going to behave in a way that will make me eat the egg, right? So those are conscious, but there’s a lot of unconscious stuff to just your unconscious reactions to, again, yeah, the environment, the world around you, how safe you feel.

And so these are constantly interacting and and then they result in various disorders if this is disrupted. Now where does the immune system come in? The immune system [00:12:00] is one of the mechanisms of how the messages go back and forth. So, for example, Let’s say a bottom up message from the gut. The gut microbes may signal to some immune cells.

Some immune cells may go on high alert and cause inflammation, you know, wherever. Maybe I don’t know, systemically or something. Low grade inflammation, right? And that may then affect the brain in a way that gives a danger signal, right, and tells the brain something’s wrong. So, the immune system is like a mediator between the two.

There are other mediators as well. Sometimes uh, the gut microbes will produce a molecule. The gut microbes can produce a neurotransmitters, and they’re the exact same neurotransmitters that are also produced within the sort of envelope or pouch of the brain, right? Because the brain is in its [00:13:00] own, you know, pouch.

So the, the gut microbes can produce some of these things, serotonin, and they go throughout the body and they act in different ways that signal to the brain. You know, the scientists, some of the conferences I’ve been to, there’s a lot of talk about how the gut produced neurotransmitters actually affect the brain and how that works.

But suffice to say, they can have similar functions and, you know, affect your mood and your behavior and all of those things. And then, so those are two of the ways the immune system, the molecules. And the third one is just direct stimulation of nerves.

So sometimes the gut microbes can just, you know, stimulate one of the nerves down in the gut. The message goes up and goes directly to the brain. So those are the three major ways that this communication happens. And again, It’s a little bit like the chicken or the egg, like [00:14:00] where does one signal start and, and what’s its effect?

But I think, yeah, again, it’s a very active area of science and I hope that soon it will result in really new, innovative ways of tackling mental health and neurodegenerative diseases.

Krati: Okay, it’s very fascinating and there’s so much to understand. It’s interesting. I didn’t know that microbiomes can actually produce neurotransmitters. So that’s actually because you know, you understand how important neurotransmitters are not just to the functioning of your body, but to the quality of your life.

So I think that’s huge, which brings me back to the to understanding microbiome, gut microbiome. And here’s what I want to know, like, there is a lot of talk about the diversity, like, cultivating the gut microbiome to be healthier. Talk to me about how that works, because, you know, you just told us that this is like a living layer.

So you want to understand just how much control you have there. How, what [00:15:00] does a healthy gut microbiome even looks like?

Kristina: Yes, and that phrase, healthy gut microbiome, I mean, if, if scientists could figure out exactly What makes that you know, though the world would be opened up and I’m sure we would have hundreds of new therapeutic However, they know some general principles so far. So they’re still kind of like working on Oh if you have this many Bifidobacteria and this many lactobacilli or whatever.

Does that mean it’s healthy? But So far, the word you used, diversity, very important. So some general principles are that you, you want your gut microbiome to be diverse and you want it to be resilient. So I’ll talk about each one of those really quick. So, a diverse and, and, you know what? A lot of this is in analogy to an ecosystem.

So if you think of a diverse ecosystem, like forest, many kinds of [00:16:00] trees, so if a disease hits one type of tree, All of those trees might be dead, but the rest of this diverse or these diverse types of trees will survive. So you can see how it makes a stronger ecosystem to have diverse types of life.

And the same thing in the gut. So if you have lots of different kinds of bacteria and other microbes, you know, you’re less likely to, you know, die. So you a complete, you know, wipe out of everything, you know, they’re not all vulnerable to the same thing. So you want to have diversity then resilience and diversity leads to resilience.

But resilience itself is when it experiences you know, a hardship, then it comes back and restores itself to what it was originally. So this in the gut looks like antibiotics. Something like that. Or on the skin microbiome, it could be like an antibacterial soap. And [00:17:00] how well can that microbiome recover itself to what it was after it’s had that treatment or that intervention.

So, the more you can keep it diverse and resilient, the better. I think that goes for almost all the microbiomes on the body. Actually, the one exception I think scientists have found is the the female vaginal microbiome actually kind of lower diversity, seems to be healthier for that. Not sure why, but for skin and for the gut they are definitely meant to be more diverse.

Krati: Is there a way for us to check on the health of our gut microbiome or just the microbiome on our body? Are there tests for it?

Kristina: At the moment, there are some tests you can buy that consumers can send in a sample mostly for the gut and I think now the oral microbiome, I mean, some people would say the oral microbiome is part of the gut microbiome, right? Cause it’s the beginning of the digestive tract, but anyway, you can send in different [00:18:00] samples, you know, saliva, fecal sample and get it tested.

And then you get an answer as to what is in there. And usually it’s quite accurate. You know, you get a list of the major groups of bacteria in your gut. But the problem is. Nobody knows, like, where’s the cutoff to, from healthy to unhealthy. It hasn’t really been established yet that if you have, you know, this percent diversity or lower, then you’re at risk for a chronic disease.

So that’s kind of emerging in the science. I think maybe one day, if we can say that, there will be an actual medical test that a doctor would give you. That would say that but yeah at the moment, it’s just kind of for fun consumer tests Some of them are quite expensive. So I don’t necessarily Recommend doing them.

I mean the the information you can get for your health is limited But some people just like to know like oh i’m curious if I have [00:19:00] this Certain bacteria, maybe acromantia you’ve heard about or something and you want to know if it’s in your gut then maybe just out of curiosity You could but I I really don’t know any Medical doctors that will take those results and be able to do anything with them.

Krati: Okay. All right. Maybe someday we can have more like comprehensive knowledge on paper exclusive to our body. And that would be helpful. But yeah,

Kristina: Yes.

Krati: Till that happens, can, what can you tell us about some, you know, lifestyle habits? What can we do to improve our microbiome? Not just the gut microbiome, but just for the rest of our body as well.

And what are we doing that is negatively impacting it?

Kristina: Yes Okay, maybe I’ll start with the negatively impacting because that that list is maybe a bit shorter so first of all antibiotics I [00:20:00] mentioned before, antibiotics are one way to essentially wipe out a lot of the gut microbes you have. Kill them. Because the point of an antibiotic is to It’s like to attack bacteria in such a way that they’re dead, so um, it does its job.

You know, if you have a gut infection, it kills not only the microbe that’s infecting your gut, but a lot of other microbes as collateral damage. We don’t have really precise Antibiotics are ways to kill just the infectious microbe. So that is one. And of course, take my, take antibiotics if you need them, if you have a bad infection.

But the truth is, and I’m sure you’ve heard this before, that most antibiotics, like the majority over 50 percent are not necessary. Either the infection would clear up on its own. They’re often given for viral infections, like Respiratory tract infections caused by a virus. [00:21:00] They’re completely ineffective against a viral infection.

But yet I think just because sometimes in a clinic setting, somebody will want a medication and the doctor will feel pressured to give them something. They get antibiotics. So they’re used way too much. And I think it’s worth just really considering If you’re in a situation where you are prescribed antibiotics um, worth really considering, do you really need them?

And another example um, my husband got his wisdom tooth pulled and before the wisdom tooth was taken out, the dentist offered him a course of 10 days of antibiotics. And so that’s an example, like there’s nothing wrong. It’s preventative. So, the alternative could be saying, saying to the doctor or the dentist, maybe, can I just, can you tell me what to watch for, if, you know, to see if I have an infection after this happens?

Maybe that’s an [00:22:00] alternative, like, if I know the top three things that happen with an infection, I can come to you and then, you know, get the treatment I need if I’m infected. But, if I’m not, then I don’t need these antibiotics. So um, other things that wipe out the gut microbes or really make it a less diverse and resilient community.

Another one is diet. And, so, there are many diets throughout the world that humans have lived on, right? There’s one diet. single type of diet that’s the worst for your health and the worst for your gut microbiome. And that is called the Western diet or the standard American diet is another name for it.

So this basically lots of sugar, And lots of high fat foods and not a lot of fiber. And so this is the diet if you have a sweet coffee for breakfast and you go and have a hamburger for lunch and something fried for dinner, like, [00:23:00] you know, a lot of high fat, high sugar foods. And it’s the absolute worst, you know they’ve done studies and within a couple of days of feeding either humans or mice a diet like this the, the gut microbes look totally different.

They’re kind of depleted. A lot of the microbes that would be producing those molecules that support health and go through the body. Those are non existent. So I think, yeah, for humans, it’s clear that that, that is one way a diet sustained over time like that is a way to really make sure your gut microbes are less diverse.

So I think those are the main two. Certain medications also alter the gut microbiome, but I think usually if you have a medication, there’s a reason for taking it. So I don’t think that’s actionable.

Krati: Yeah. I think. It’s becoming more and more obvious, especially in the past few years, especially since COVID happened, just how over [00:24:00] prescribed everyone is in the world. It’s not just like one country or the other everywhere. And I think it’s becoming Very obviously you have to take a very proactive role where your health is concerned and You have to question your doctors It’s it’s difficult to do that because there’s so much more like we always Sort of as soon as we go in we’re very aware of how much more this person knows than us And we’re very reluctant to question them You’ve pointed out something huge that we need to do that because I think it’s becoming very obvious how over medicated everyone is and how it’s impacting us.

I think, thank you for pointing out because not a lot of us are even considering the gut microbiome and we need to

Kristina: Right.

Yeah, and I think exactly and it’s it can be done in a polite way And I think but it’s just feedback to the doctor that well Like I’m concerned about the impact of this on my gut microbiome and is there anything else that’s possible and sometimes there are several [00:25:00] solutions that you can choose from Um, and so, yeah, it doesn’t have to be done in a combative way or anything.

It’s just that, yeah, doctors can learn the feedback that, you know, this is what I care about. And this is the type of thing I want to do. The problem is I think, and this is changing in younger generations. Some, some people don’t want to change their diet. They just like to eat the way they eat, and they’d rather have a pill to compensate for that, but I have heard that in the younger generations, it’s sort of the opposite of that, that maybe you know, young, younger people don’t want a pill, they would rather change their lifestyle and be empowered that way.

So this leads nicely into what you were asking about, what can you do? to support a more resilient and diverse microbiome. So I’ll start with diet, because that is a huge one. So, there, in, in Gut Health for Dummies, in the book there, I had identified, just looking at the science overall, and what we know so far, five [00:26:00] principles for a healthy or a resilient and diverse gut microbiome.

The first is eat lots of fiber, like at least the daily recommended fiber intake, which I believe is between 28 and 35 for an adult, 35 grams per day for an adult. So really try to get that amount of fiber and diverse sources of fiber. And one other supporting piece of evidence for this is that the American Gut Project found that people who ate 30 types of plants, so different types of plants, anything from nuts, seeds, grains, vegetables, fruits, in a week, had noticeably more diverse gut microbes than other people.

So try to hit that 30 mark every week. So that’s not every day, don’t worry. But over the week, different types of fiber, fiber rich foods. So that’s one. Adding [00:27:00] live microbes to your diet. So, doesn’t, I mean, later we can get into the distinction between probiotics and just plain old live microbes, but live microbes is a broad category of any safe live microbe in yogurt or even on the surface of fruits and vegetables.

If you, you know have organic ones that you just eat straight. So that is beneficial for your health, can have modest benefits for your overall health. There’s some science linking this now to your health. Uh, The next one is eat more fermented foods. And again, this overlaps a little bit with the previous one of eating more microbes, but because some fermented foods have live microbes, others don’t.

Like for example, sourdough bread, the microbes are heated during the bread baking process and they all die. But nevertheless, it’s a fermented food. And there’s some evidence [00:28:00] that just a diet rich in fermented foods can be beneficial for gut and overall health. The other one is really try to have a balance of fats in your diet.

And so it’s not so much about how much fat is in your diet, but the types of fats and olive oil is a really important type of fat that. Supports gut health, lowers inflammation, tied in with like the Mediterranean style diet that is so beneficial for health. And then the fifth diet principle is saying goodbye to additives as much as possible. One of the first lines of science that showed something detrimental to the gut microbiome was studying emulsifiers. And these are chemicals like polysorbate 80.

There are many kind of long chemical names to them, but they are a group of [00:29:00] chemicals that help emulsify or like smooth out some processed foods. And these were shown to have like a devastating impact on the gut microbiome, cause inflammation, like, not good news. So these are found in like some ice cream products, things like dressings that are, you know, so they stay together and don’t separate on the shelf.

And so those kind of additives are really not good for your gut microbes. Another one is some artificial sweeteners have been found to kind of mess up your gut and all the inflammatory processes and even sort of your metabolic health. So. As much as possible, avoid those additives and eat sort of whole foods.

And a lot of people may do this anyway, but yeah, cooking at home, using your ingredients that, you know, whole ingredients and avoiding additives where you can. So those are the five diet [00:30:00] principles that are supporting gut health. Now there are some other ways to support gut health. And um, you know, these are going to sound maybe a little boring because They’re kind of things we’ve known that we should do all along for our health, but just recently, we’re realizing that the microbes are the reason, or part of the reason, that they are beneficial.

Exercising, right? So, getting enough exercise in your day, even some cardio and they correlate this and they do like really cute mouse exercise studies where they put the mice on a little wheel and get them exercising right and finding that that intervention causes them to have more diverse It’s a more diverse collection of gut microbes and more short chain fatty acids, which is one of those amazing molecules that helps help.

Sleep is another one. I mean, yeah, either [00:31:00] disrupted sleep or not enough sleep is correlated with like body wide inflammation. And, you know, it’s unfortunate for people who may work a night shift or something because this is something that’s part of their life, like sleep disruption or different patterns.

But it is worth being careful, like if that’s some, some of the listeners, they, they work a night shift. It is something to be careful about because it does put you at risk. And again, if you do some of these other behaviors, maybe you can compensate for that. But it is one thing that. you know, reduces the diversity of your gut microbes.

And then up and coming, it’s there’s one area that’s about um, environmental exposures. And again, very cutting edge, but people looking at how much time you spend in nature, Out in parks and correlating that with the microbes in your gut. There was an interesting study in [00:32:00] Finland with a daycare, child’s daycare.

And they had the children play in these sand boxes that were enriched with microbes from the forest. Like a very rich community of microbes. And they found that the children had a more diverse skin microbiome. And also changed um, it changed their immune markers as well. So kind of making those connections between what you experience outside and like outside is the most, you know, diverse environment you can think of for microbes, you know, they’re everywhere in the air, on the soil, everywhere and then correlating that to health.

So that, that might be another way is to spend more time outside. Gardening or in nature and enjoying, you know, the fresh air.

Krati: Right. , you know, I’ve been the past year I’ve been trying to get healthier, but healthier in a way where I’m not just like losing weight for this. or just for now, but for the longterm. So [00:33:00] really trying to cook more myself, learning recipes, which is not easy to do because you have so much to do every day.

It’s not easy to take time out to actually, but what I’ve discovered is what you pointed out, like the, the additives, the emulsifiers, as you said, I’ve read those on the back of the package and they’re everywhere. It is astonishing to me how Like far off field we are now from like being a healthy Community and I mean like the global community.

I I don’t know if like there maybe there are countries that are still being very natural But I I doubt it. Everybody is living in a very artificial way now, and it is crazy. It is crazy just how insidious this whole thing is and how Like deep we are into it like everything has sugar in it every single thing even stuff that doesn’t need it Everything has preservatives additives Everything we are eating food that we were never even meant to eat.

We are so massively over Medicated it is insane. The [00:34:00] whole thing is crazy.

Kristina: Yeah. You know, and it’s, it is really hard to believe, you know, when you look at where we are now, yeah, it feels really overwhelming sometimes. Like, how are we going to get out of this? Because like you have massive stores full of food. Well, maybe even quote unquote food, right. That is just full of all these additives and it’s shelf stable.

There are no live microbes of the safe kind, you know because everything, cause we’ve been scared of microbes this whole time, right? And the food system is really built around eliminating as many microbes as possible. So all of those packaged foods that you see on the shelves are consciously made, yeah, to be stable and to have no microbes whatsoever. Right? So then we’ve, We’ve just depleted ourselves of all these great foods that, you know, we could be eating. So I think part of the answer, and this has [00:35:00] been a trend for a little while is eating local because just a side effect of eating local is foods may be fresher.

Um, They might not have had to have these processes done to them that are um, you know, taking away the microbes, sterilizing them, right? So for example, recently, I was trying to think to myself, how can I um, Eat more local and I decided to sign up for one of those box deliveries. So a local farm will deliver a box of produce and it’s kind of a surprise what you get But that’s kind of the fun of it.

But yeah, so that’s one of the things i’ve done to like try to get more microbes into my life and because even some of the fruits and vegetables at like larger grocery stores are, you know, they’re not very rich in microbes and they may have been treated in certain ways. But if you go to your [00:36:00] local farmers, maybe they’re more likely to, you know, use practices.

And, and again, the stuff goes bad quicker, but it’s okay because you’re nearby and you can use it really quickly. So that that gives me a little hope. But as you say, like, it’s, it’s really hard to know how we’re going to tackle this. But again, us as individuals, just consciously knowing, I think that’s the first step to knowing.

That, you know, your gut microbes, they are waiting with open mouths every day for everything you eat. And if they don’t get what they want and they need, you know, like the fiber rich foods, they’re gonna protest. They’re not gonna help support your health. So that’s that daily reminder to really try to implement the principles.

Krati: yeah, I think it keeps hitting me every day as I do, do this work is just how little we actually know, like the important stuff was never taught to us in school. Like this never [00:37:00] came up in school and it really should have because parents have to work against their children. The children are like, no, no, no, give me more junk.

Even in our teenage, we are doing that when we’re not really kids. We, because we don’t really know this stuff. Nobody, you know, It sat us down and actually explained to us how deeply and incredibly important this is. And then we end up depending on medication for what we should be getting naturally. And we shouldn’t even be getting sick as much as we do.

And then the whole thing just makes us worse. So

Kristina: Yeah, I know. And in the book too, I say, you know, I, I thought back to when I first learned about nutrition in a formal way, and it was like, you know, in middle school, learning in health class about nutrition. And my goodness, it was so boring. Like, you know, it started with grams of fiber, grams of fat, and here’s what a serving of grains looks like.

Like, and. It does not appeal to a middle schooler, right? It just went over my head. [00:38:00] But again, like, we need to figure out ways to make that more engaging. And like you say, really help kids and older to understand the impacts of it all. Like, it’s not just, oh, eat this and you’ll be healthy. That’s too vague.

So really drill down into, yeah, your gut microbes do this. And here’s what happens next. And the scientists are working to You know, figure out more of those pieces, but I think we have enough now to start going. Okay, let’s Try to teach kids and and really draw them in early Teach them the importance of this and so they’ll be set up better for their lifelong health

Krati: yeah. I think it has to start with importance of gut health because I doubt very many kids know that your gut health is actually impacting your performance, like how you do out in the field, how you perform in, even in your like cognitive Challenges can be impacted by your gut health your [00:39:00] skin. I think if teenagers know how Their skin is impacted hair is impacted.

I think they would pay way more attention because this is stuff that I learned when This was because I had a skin problem massive cystic acne issue It was pointed out to me that you need to take better care of your stomach and I worked on that But again, it wasn’t easy but just knowing that makes a lot of difference to you.

Kristina: Yeah. Yeah. And skin totally. And I suffer from skin problems from time to time too. And I find, yeah, the more in control of my lifestyle I am, the better it is. Right. Um, And when I’m like traveling and maybe, you know, having a few drinks and, you know, doing all of the things that I know are not good for my gut.

Well, what do you know? You know, I get redness in my skin. So yeah, it definitely is connected. And you mentioned cognitive health. And actually, I was going to mention there’s a new line of research on cognitive health and diet, especially as you [00:40:00] get older, you know, it’s, it’s typical when you get older to be a little less cognitively sharp, right?

And maybe if you’re unlucky, get, you know, dementia type symptoms. Um, And it’s interesting. I was speaking with the researcher the other day who was studying how fiber in the diet can protect from this later on. And, essentially, she was saying, well, she has not been able to figure out any intervention, like any, You know, eat a certain number of grams of fiber, and then you’ll do better on a test like we can’t do that yet.

However, it’s really clear to her that maybe 20 or 30 years before any symptoms would show up. So like people in there, let’s say like, You know, thirties, forties, if they have a fiber rich diet, they’re way less likely to have dementia and other cognitive problems [00:41:00] as they age. So we really have to think like wherever you are now, eat your fiber because that is setting you up for your brain health later in life.

And short chain fatty acids seem to be the main mechanism that that happens. So when you eat a fiber rich diet, yeah, again, you know, the gut microbes ferment it, they produce short chain fatty acids, and you have to have a base level circulating in your blood at all times to kind of keep up your cognitive health and then late and support that for later on.

So that’s just one example, right? Where, yeah, it’s like act now because you’re setting yourself up for your future health.

Krati: Yeah, so incredibly important. I want to know about something you said as you were explaining the good stuff. Probiotics, prebiotics, fermented food. This is what I want to know about because I don’t think very many people even know what they are and what the difference is and then also how we can integrate these into our [00:42:00] diet.

Kristina: So yeah, there’s people are starting to refer to these substances as the biotics. And that would include probiotics, prebiotics, synbiotics, and postbiotics. And then there’s another category which is fermented foods. So yeah, I’ll go through each one of those. And my perspective is really based on what the scientists say.

So the, there’s a group called ISAP, the International Scientific Association for Pro and Prebiotics. And they gathered a bunch of experts to come up with a definition for each of these substances. And they published it in Nature Reviews, Gastroenterology and Hepatology. So I guess what I’m saying is based on those papers.

So you can go and look if you want more detail, but so probiotics, essentially live microorganisms. When you take them in high enough dose and in the exact characterized [00:43:00] strains that they will give you a health benefit. So these have to be studied in at least one scientific study in humans. So that, you know, it works in humans and tested for a health benefit and, and the health benefits that are typical for probiotics that have been tested are things like re reduction of antibiotic associated diarrhea.

There are some that are effective for like colic in babies or yeah, there’s, there’s a few different indications. Um, Some are even effective against respiratory tract infections, which is odd because you’d think they go into the gut, but somehow they affect the respiratory tract. Mechanisms aren’t always known,

but, so, yeah, there are, there are specific probiotics.

You should know the strain. It should be well characterized and they’ll give you a health benefit. So that’s probiotics. Prebiotics are [00:44:00] the food or the substrates that beneficial microbes feed on. So this is when you take something like inulin, you can take a pill or you can take it in a food, you, that, you know, reaches your gut.

And then let’s say bifidobacteria, that they use it as a food source and they grow, and then it’s the bifidobacteria that help your health. So in both cases, it’s, it’s the microorganisms that are actually doing the work for health, but in the prebiotics case, you’re actually ingesting the fiber they need to proliferate.

And actually, I should say, a technicality. A prebiotic does not always have to be a form of fiber. A lot of them are, but I think it’s a big area of innovation, and so we may find some prebiotics in the future that are not fibers.

Krati: right,

Kristina: So, we’ve got probiotics, prebiotics, synbiotics, A simple explanation is it is [00:45:00] just a combination of a probiotic and a prebiotic.

Again, there’s a few scientific technicalities, but that’s essentially it. And then a postbiotic is when you have a live microorganism, it’s killed And then you, you ingest it. So it’s uh, basically a killed microbe. Sometimes it comes in a package with a bunch of other stuff that wa that was released when it was killed.

But that’s the definition of a post biotic. Now that’s the scientific definition. I know there’s some controversy because some people in the industry and some consumers previously thought that postbiotics were molecules released by bacteria in the gut. And so there was some confusion when this definition came out, like, what are you talking about?

Is it a killed microbe or a molecule? So I think in the science it’s, it’s coming around to killed microbes. Those are [00:46:00] postbiotics. And the reason is because a molecule from a microbe, well, if it’s in your body, it’s hard to know like where’s the origin of it and where it’s going. So it’s just, it’s very difficult to quantify postbiotics in the body.

And so, those are something different. Those are just chemicals. You can refer to them by their chemical names. So those are the biotics and then briefly fermented foods. There’s a definition of those too. And they are essentially foods made through the action of live microbes, and they may or may not contain live microbes when you eat them.

But they have at some point been changed and transformed by the live microbes. And I will say there’s one more category. which is related to probiotics and that is live microbes or live cultures. And the distinction is important because, say fermented foods, they have this [00:47:00] wild mix of microbes sometimes, like a sauerkraut or a pickle can have just like hundreds of types of microbes and they’re all in different amounts and every batch is different.

Like, those are live, safe microbes, they’re not probiotics because you can never replicate that in a pill to you know, to take the pill and get a health benefit. Probiotics have to be much more precise, right? You have to know how much, and which ones, and that you’re guaranteed that health benefit. And guaranteed for most people, right?

Like in a scientific study. So that’s the distinction there.

Krati: Okay, to make this a little bit easier for everybody to understand, can we relate these two products or stuff that we find in the world? So we understand like where, where these biotics are coming from,

Kristina: Great idea. So yeah, probiotics, they’re found in some of those really precise products [00:48:00] that you’d find. So some yogurt, some commercial yogurt, is considered a probiotic because it has a standardized amount per serving of the certain live microbes. More likely, probiotics are found in pills because they are freeze dried and the amount is very set and then put in a bottle so you know exactly how much you’re getting.

In some grocery stores, you will see a special refrigerated probiotic section and sometimes they have like small yogurt drinks and those would also be probiotics. If you look on the label, you would see the exact strain like lactobacillus, rhamnosus, GG, or whatever it is.

The strain name must have letters or numbers after it, just in case listeners aren’t familiar with what a strain is. So you have to have this three part name, like the genus, Lactobacilli, or whatever. The species, [00:49:00] rhamnosus, and then some letters or numbers indicating the string. So just, just a heads up, that, that is a prerequisite for being a probiotic.

Krati: right?

Kristina: Then, for a prebiotic, I mean, think something like um, inulin, if it’s present at a high enough dose. Okay. It can be called a prebiotic wherever it is. So if it’s could be in a granola bar, some cereals , but often um, yeah, you might find prebiotic supplements too. And again, so you know how much you’re getting and even yeah, whole foods, like some of the highest prebiotic foods would be garlic, onions.

Jerusalem artichokes. They’re like a very, do you know what those are? They’re kind of lumpy

Krati: Yeah, I, I think I’ve seen it on some recipe. I don’t think we have it here in India, but I, or at least not in my state, but we’ve, I’ve seen it on the, those recipe blogs and they [00:50:00] often promote it. Like, yeah, you should get this. This is a better alternative. Yeah.

Kristina: Yeah. Yeah. And, but garlic and onions I think are in most places. And those are some of the best sources of prebiotics. Um, And then yeah, symbiotics, I think symbiotics are really mostly in commercial products and supplements. Postbiotics. Are as well because you have to have this killing process done to the microbe and I think um There is there are a few brands that have a post biotic product.

They’re really kind of newer So they’re not as easy to find, but I, I think one uh, big company in North America is doing an immune targeting postbiotic at the moment, which can be good because it’s more shelf stable than like the live microbe. So there’s more potential applications you might find. And actually, I think in Japan, they put postbiotics everywhere.

They put them in chips [00:51:00] and, you know, drinks and all kinds of things. you know process foods. And so you have this health element to some of the foods uh, fermented foods are, I mean, I’m not sure what it is, how it is, where you’re from. But I, I find more and more people are making fermented foods at home.

And a lot of them are traditional. They’re learning the ways of making either the pickle or. The sauerkraut, whatever it is. And so those are great sources made at home, but then there are also some that you can buy in the grocery stores.

Krati: Yeah, we have stores that are very like dedicated to gut health. I recently discovered a couple of them and they’ve got like The it’s it’s like a whole different world in there and there’s like kombuchas and then these those little Bottles with the probiotics in them and it’s it’s it’s interesting.

It’s a little Like I would walk very slowly through those stores because there’s so much stuff that you don’t know [00:52:00] but what really I wonder about as I’m walking through that store And I’m guessing a lot of my listeners would be wondering about as I’m listening to you explain all of this thing Like the knowledge is so vast.

Tell me where do I start? Like if I am taking my first step today itself to help my gut microbiome, where do I start

with this?

Kristina: Yeah. Well, you had a really nice image there of a person walking through one of these stores. So first of all, yeah, going into a store that’s going to likely have some of these gut products and more um, you know, Products that are less processed available. So if you go into the store, I guess my recommendation is to Start with what appeals to you and find something that looks delicious.

This is the amazing thing about fermented foods They’re so tasty and not every person’s gonna love every fermented food. That’s for sure like Like I’ve tried natto. It’s this [00:53:00] fermented bean in Japan. That wasn’t my thing, but I love fermented pickles, you know, all these other foods. So try something from the store.

See if you like it. I don’t necessarily recommend starting with bona fide probiotics because not only are they expensive, but they’re also for a specific, you should take them for a specific reason. So maybe

if you have a problem, like you’re if let’s say you really have to take antibiotics for some reason, and typically, you know, a lot of people get diarrhea if they take antibiotics, you want to stop that.

Well, there are probiotics you can take for that exact problem. So, but for the average person, you don’t need probiotics right off the bat. Just. Have some fermented foods, other live microbes. Um, Yeah, things that appeal to you. So I think that’s where to start. And then again, the fiber thing, like it’s one of those [00:54:00] things you’ve probably heard, like you’re, you know, get this much fiber, but I find once you put, you know, some effort into it, it can be really kind of fun and a cool daily challenge to try to get.

your fiber, like all the um, recommended daily amount. So using for example, one practical thing you could do is, if you like nuts and seeds, just buy several different types of nuts and seeds, combine them into one big container, and then, so when you take a handful, you’re not just taking one type, you’re taking four or five types at once.

And that’s going to help you with your diversity, right? Trying to get those 30 types per week. So yeah, there’s things like that. When you are maybe having a salad, try different types of greens. And if you can choose at the store, if there’s some bags of lettuce and again, you can, [00:55:00] it’s not like you have to Do everything yourself, you know, you might choose to have prepared, you know, washed lettuce or

something But try to choose the one with more different types of leaves in there So they’re just really simple things you can do.

They don’t even cost a whole lot more and just getting more diversity. And I think that is the first step.

Krati: Okay, can I ask, and I’m not sure anybody can really answer this question, but a lot of the time we try to make everything delicious. This is something that, you know, I would often say to my mom, I’m not going to eat food that I don’t enjoy. I’m just not going to, life is too short for that. So I, this is why I’m learning how to cook so I can make healthy stuff.

Cause you know, you don’t expect other people to do all that research, but you got to do it yourself. So I’m doing the research and learning what I need. And then I’m also trying to make it delicious. But something that I would notice that people would do is they would pile on the sugar into what they’re cooking and I wonder if that kind of like kills the whole purpose of [00:56:00] it because if you end up adding sugar like to yogurt, they want to eat vanilla and they want to eat all of these like maple syrup and I’m wondering if that just kind of Like uh, does sugar have any role?

Because we have naturally occurring sugar in fruits and all, and we can get it from there. But if you’re artificially adding sugar, or then, you know, trying to up your fiber intake, but then eating a bunch of processed food, wouldn’t that just kind of like derail the whole thing?

Kristina: Yeah, that’s really interesting. You mentioned that because it’s been something that’s surprising to me in this whole area of diet research. Um, Is that like sugar? Yeah, it’s, it’s detrimental, but maybe not directly to your gut microbes.

So I think the, the rule of thumb is to stay within the daily maximum that’s recommended for sugar intake.

So just make sure you’re doing that and then [00:57:00] choose your individual foods accordingly. So like it’s okay to eat yogurt with sugar, but not if you’re also eating a bunch of cookies later

on, right? Cause then you’re going to exceed your overall. sugar intake. But like where sugar comes in is really through um, where it comes into health is really again that correlation between your diet pattern and your long term health.

And so like the Mediterranean diet is a good example. Why is it so healthy? Well, there’s various reasons, but one reason is that it, it includes very little sugar and the sugar that you get on the Mediterranean diet tends to be from fruits. So again, it’s accompanied by some fiber and it like, if it’s desserts, it tends to be a sweetened with honey and with some nuts and, you know, kind of nut based things.

So that seems to be a relatively okay [00:58:00] way to get your sugar. But yeah, like a lot of table sugar, you’re very quickly going to exceed how much sugar you should have in a day. And so, and that’s not good overall. So yeah, again, it’s sugar and the gut microbes. Like there’s not a lot of mechanistic research showing why it, you know, and sugar, because it’s absorbed in the small intestine, like a table sugar type molecule it doesn’t reach the gut.

you know, the colon. So yeah, there’s, there’s different mechanisms at play. And the small intestine of course is harder to reach. Scientists haven’t been able to study it as much. So that might be an up and coming um, area of research. But again, for now, what we know is basically, yeah, just stick within the recommended Number of grams for the day.

Krati: Okay. Everything that you’ve, you’ve, you know, shared with us the probe about the biotics and all the other healthy stuff we can do, how is this ultimately impacting the immune system as well? Because [00:59:00] I want to know about like this, suppose this is a defense of our body that is an, an We are learning in the news that there are new, we are diseases coming up.

And so we need the immune system to be healthier. The mental health issues are definitely like a daily struggle and they seem to be on the rise from where they already are, which is pretty, the situation is pretty bad. How do we prioritize this? Like in the grand scheme of things, considering our busy schedules, considering all that we’re doing, what do we prioritize here?

And how, how do, like, is there something that we can. focus more on that would, then the benefits would spill over onto the rest of the system.

Kristina: Yeah, great question. I think to me diet is One of those things that’s so central and I mean well With that said some people who really struggle with sleep Maybe sleep is the priority because as you know if you’ve been sleep deprived even for a day or two [01:00:00] Your cognition is all messed up and you’re eating more foods that you wouldn’t normally eat.

You have cravings, you know, it’s, sleep has such an immediate impact on how you function, that probably, come to think of it, that’s one of the priorities, right? So working on sleep and, Trying to get longer sleep and I know there’s a lot of barriers for some people But again in the gut health for dummies book I offer some advice on like how to have good sleep hygiene And again, those are like practices around before you go to sleep and how to have a restful sleep And there’s lots of resources out there for that too.

So I guess yeah, maybe sleep first Then diet, because I think that is, and you know what, and there are actually psychiatrists now that I’ve met that have told me that when they do, when they meet somebody with anxiety or depression, one of the first things they do is [01:01:00] they come up with some meals and a meal plan for them.

Because I mean, depending what the person wants, if they just want a pill, fine, but a lot of the time they see in the clinic that diet can make a difference. And so they do some discussion around diet. And then come up with um, you know, if, if a medications needed to help, you know um, help with that too.

So, yeah, but I would say like clinicians notice this and gastroenterologists certainly are going to tell, tell you that, you know, with many GI disorders, addressing diet can have a huge impact on the symptoms and even probably for generally healthy people. You know, you might notice some of those little niggly things like and again, I suffered from terrible gut problems about 20 years ago.

And it was just like really minor things that you might not even mention to your doctor. Like, you know, Oh, I feel like a bit itchy or like Um, [01:02:00] I just, I have this, well, now you might say like a brain fog or like, you couldn’t remember the word

for something, or you’re just in a bad mood and like, or every day, you know, after 5pm, you’re just so fatigued, you want to go to bed, like, so they’re just these things that like, they’re not really, you wouldn’t even think of mentioning them maybe to a doctor, but then when you change your diet, you just realize they all go away.

And you’re like, oh, this was affecting my functioning. And so in my case, yeah, like I was a busy young professional. I was rushing around eating in my car, you know, and so many unhealthy habits. And then finally, gradually over time, I realized, you know, how like, and changed my diet. Was eating a lot more fiber and finally realized, Oh, I bet that had a lot to do with why I was feeling so bad.

Krati: yeah, yeah. I can attest to that. My own recovery from depression. I was [01:03:00] in such a dark place and it started with sleep, but sleep was harder to control because my body was messed up at that point. It was not. I was barely getting any sleep, but eating like I started eating fruits, salads like there was zero junk, zero junk at that point in my diet and it made, within three months my life was completely different.

Like, I never thought I would recover at all, but then to have recovered in three months getting my body back, having control back, that makes me emotional whenever I talk about it, but

Kristina: Yeah. Amazing story. I love

it. Yeah. Just how much of a difference. And, and like you say, that is a relatively short amount of time in the scheme of things, right? When you think about. What, you know, your life could have been if you had continued to suffer. Right. So yeah, that’s an amazing example of yeah.

How impactful it can be just to change your diet and, and like you say, your sleep. So [01:04:00] yeah, these things are really powerful. And I think anyone, even if. You don’t have a certain diagnosis, even if you’re generally healthy, can still really benefit from these interventions or habits.

Krati: Now talking to the community, the people who work out a lot, and this is the community that’s going to really listen to you because they’re always listening for more advice, more tips to really be able to work out more, to do more in life, you know, get more out of their time. So, and I know that people who are working out a lot are struggling because you have to run your ordinary life.

You know, show up for your job, for your kids, for your responsibilities, but you also want to work out, tone your body. And you notice you are getting fatigued a lot. So people are looking to supplementation. They’re looking to alternative protein powders, alternative solutions. What would you say to them?

What can they do? Can, one of the questions is, can supplementation [01:05:00] interfere with what you’re teaching us today? What you, you know, doing more for your gut microbiome, can supplementation interfere with that? Or are there other things we can do that would help us perform, but also positively impact our gut microbiome.

Kristina: Yeah, so I have not heard of any research really showing that supplementation can interfere with things. Unless, of course, maybe you’re taking, like, a really unreasonable dose of something, and, of course, that’s not, that’s going to upset the ecosystem of your gut in some way, but normal supplements at normal doses.

At least I haven’t seen any science that says that’s detrimental. So, you know, I think whatever supplements people are taking seem fine. You know, if they’re, if they’re safe supplements, great. So as for, yeah, high athletic performance, there actually is one company that has claimed to have a microbe that they’ve [01:06:00] isolated that’s associated with really elite performance in.

Athletics and they say that it’s a microbe that increases when you reach that elite level and they have isolated it and they’re selling it back as a supplement. I don’t know if there’s enough science like personally, I wouldn’t be convinced by the science they have so far, but they’re still working on it.

So it may prove that this is a really good intervention. But I think definitely there are some correlations between what’s happening in your gut and your performance. It might not have a huge amount of influence over your performance overall, but maybe just that little edge. And again, very active area of science.

I think one of the things is that athletes, really elite athletes, they can suffer from a lot of GI problems. Because I know my husband ran, used to run marathons and he would get, you know, really loose [01:07:00] stool sometimes if he ran a lot. And so it is pretty common. And so I think that is the kind of low hanging fruit here is how to stabilize the gut microbiome of elite athletes in such a way that it may help with the gut problems they experience.

And because, yeah, in general, elite performance is very hard on the body. It’s just demanding on your body. So I think first of all, it’s yeah, getting rid of some of those symptoms. And then maybe the next step is actually enhancing performance. But I mean, the, the fiber and the short chain fatty acids seem beneficial all around and, and short chain fatty acids do increase upon exercise.

So I think, but it, the thing is, if you don’t eat the fiber there’s nothing for the gut microbes to munch on right to produce the short chain fatty acids. So I think the combination of fiber and exercise [01:08:00] is probably, you know, the most beneficial thing.

Krati: Okay. There’s one question that I should have asked at the beginning itself. Are there any main symptoms that could help you realize that your gut microbiome or your gut health is not as it should be like that you’re there is something there that needs attention any like primary symptoms that you would share with my audience

Kristina: I think basically any digestive symptom that you have that’s uncomfortable is a red flag for sure. So that includes, you know, stool patterns that aren’t normal for you. And again, maybe it’s just a change for you and what’s normal for one person might not be normal for another, but if you see a change that you’re kind of worried about, that’s a red flag.

And it could be also like upper GI symptoms like nausea, feeling like you want to vomit, heartburn. And even [01:09:00] um, Excessive borborygmi, it’s called, so the stomach rumbling noises, that might be a very subtle symptom, but it’s, it’s valid, because it can be disruptive, right? If you’re like, in a room with people, your stomach’s rumbling, it can be quite embarrassing.

And, you know, gas as well, right? Who wants to deal with that? So, any of these symptoms, symptoms of the GI tract. You know, there are ways to address them, and you shouldn’t have to necessarily live with them. So um, and I mean, it’s normal to have gas, I should clarify, but it’s like, not excessive, not like getting in the way of activities you do, right?

So yeah, so I think basically any symptoms, and then beyond that, I mean, there are other symptoms, but they’re not definitely pointing to the gut, if you know what I mean. So, like I mentioned before, like brain fog, that could be for many reasons. Like that could be if [01:10:00] someone’s going through perimenopause,

it’s kind of normal when you have fluctuating hormones to have a bit of like brain fog or cognitive trouble. So it’s, it’s not like it directly says something’s wrong with the gut, but it is, it can be. You know, one of those symptoms and skin problems as well, like not every person with a skin problem is going to have a gut problem, but can be one of the signs.

So yeah, so I’d say, but the telltale would really be the, the gut symptoms and there are interventions and, and you know what, like at this point with, for example, probiotics, and prebiotics and a lot of the, the biotics , it’s kind of a trial and error. So if you have some of these symptoms and you have like, say like excessive stomach rumbling, well you can just go ahead and try a probiotic on the shelf and see what happens.

Just try to intervene in that ecosystem and see what happens. But like the science isn’t advanced enough to go, Oh yeah, there’s a specific probiotic for stomach [01:11:00] rumbling.

Krati: Yeah.

Kristina: we’ll get there, but at this point, like, it’s kind of try something out and see what happens.

Krati: Yeah, let’s take it slow. Let’s take it one step at a time. I think that would be great. Yeah. Anything that you have seen online or on the news, any like myths around this area, like something that people are doing that they it’s not true and they really shouldn’t be doing

Kristina: Yeah, I mean, the microbiome tests have been controversial. We covered that before, but yeah, essentially medical doctors will say there’s really no reason to take them. But if you’re just curious, maybe you want to take them. So that’s one thing. I think there is a huge problem in that the, a lot of the supplements on the shelves, they might say probiotic, prebiotic, symbiotic, postbiotic, and they’re not actually those products.

So the scientific definition. Would not be met by those products in the bottle. And that’s because essentially [01:12:00] regulations are so different in different countries. And I, in almost no countries, you know, do they regulate it according to the scientific definition. I know there are people working on this and scientists are really pushing to have to harmonize between the regulations and the science, but for now, it’s really like buyer beware.

So if you go and pick out a product, it says prebiotic. It may not be the substance that’s a prebiotic and it may not be at a dose that’s effective. So it’s really up to you. You can go to PubMed, look it up, look up the substance and, or if it’s a probiotic, look up the strain, just check if there’s any scientific published studies on it.

Sometimes the companies will have the studies internally, but it’s better if they are a published public study. So that’s, you know, one way before you. in a product, especially if it’s expensive, you can do a [01:13:00] little bit of research to find out if there’s science on it.

Krati: Finally, I want to know any resources that you would recommend or is there a way for people to learn more from you?

Kristina: So one resource I’d really recommend is that organization that did the definitions ISAP. So they have a website. ISAPPscience org. And it has a lot of resources. And again, I work with them. I help them with some of

their materials. As a writer, I do, yeah, so, full disclosure, but they are like, kind of the top, the world’s top science organization in this area.

And they have amazing resources. They have infographics, videos, and you can learn a lot. And Yeah, and as for my own work, I do have a newsletter. It’s kind of on hiatus right now, but I’m planning to get it up and running. So, if you want, you can go to my website, bykriscampbell. com. That’s K R I S and Campbell, C A M P B [01:14:00] E L L dot com.

And you can sign up and I will be starting to, I’ll launch it again in the new year. And sharing like all the latest science and tips that I know. And one more thing, if you’re really into the gut brain access and actionable things there, there’s a platform called Mind, Mood, and Microbes, and there’s a public information platform, they have social media accounts, that’s MyMindMicrobes.com. Or yeah, on the social media, you can find them. So those are a few of the resources. And then my book, Gut Health for Dummies does have kind of an overview of this field. So if anyone’s interested that’s a comprehensive resource.